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Trinity River Park

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tamtagon
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Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 31 Oct 2016 11:33

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas/2 ... ld-simmons

Mayor Rawlings announces $50M donation for Trinity Park from estate of late billionaire Harold Simmons

Written by Naomi Martin

...The donation will fund a significant part of park design and construction between the Margaret McDermott Bridge to the south to the Ron Kirk Bridge to the northwest. The McDermott Bridge spans Interstate-30. The Kirk Bridge was formerly known as the Continental Bridge. The space between them will become Simmons Park. It constitutes some 155 acres of the 285-acre basin considered part of the Trinity River project ... The Simmons donation provides $10 million to the trust immediately to fund design and beginning costs. The remaining $40 million will be dependent on the Annette Simmons' or her representatives' "reasonable satisfaction" by Sept. 15, 2019 that the park has adequate funding and proper plans for governance, management and operations.


Well, I guess we'll see what happens next.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 31 Oct 2016 12:37

This is significant and somewhat of a surprise. Hope they can make it work, the only think I don't like is that it allows room for the Trinity Parkway.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 31 Oct 2016 13:04

Philanthropy is a wonderful thing!

I'm now remembering some nice, believable rumor-type mentions that the Crow Children intend to honor the Family Matriarch with a Dallas Trinity River Park amenity. Underwriting the third Calatrava Bridge (to complete the set) would certainly have a nice ring, all three bridges named Margaret.... but we'll see.

Sammons Foundation might even come back with more, they've been known to 'keep it going.' The hospitals in Dallas have truly gained from Sammons, and now the (potential) for this park, it's heady.

Just to check, but is the mayor slowly but surely dialing back the tolled highway? just a little bit here, and a little bit there, but officially steering toward an actual parkway the benefits enjoyment of the park itself NOT a speedway around downtown...?

We can only hope, but I have a feeling the next mayoral election will come with active anti-tollway policy from that particular office -- no matter what the phantom controllers say.

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DPatel304
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 31 Oct 2016 17:56

So what does that Sept 2019 deadline mean? It looks like, from now until that date, they have $10 million to design the park and have some money for 'beginning costs'. Does that mean we'll for sure get at least that much money towards the park?

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 31 Oct 2016 19:40

^that's just to make sure the Sammons Foundation doesn't throw the remaining $40 million down the drain, if in three years, more money has been collected and it's adequately organized, the rest of the money is released.

...seems like after 30 years, we would already have a design.

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willyk
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby willyk » 31 Oct 2016 22:51

I wonder if they mean Simmons will fund 155 of the 285 acres if the the Trinity Trust can raise the funds for the remaining 130?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 01 Nov 2016 08:25

http://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/20 ... on-richer/

BY PETER SIMEK
OCTOBER 31, 2016

...With this historic donation, and following City Council approval, the park will be named The Harold Simmons Park. Other contingencies of the gift include that the park be operated by a private entity that has secured operations and maintenance funds, and that the funds needed to build the remainder of the park are raised within the next three years.

The full park concept encompasses more than 285 acres of land near the heart of downtown Dallas.
- naturalized river landscape
- miles of pathways and trails within the levees
- five elevated parks that will extend from inside the levees into the adjacent communities
- allows for the Trinity Parkway

The concept is the careful work of Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates, Inc.


Architect website has lots of pictures:

http://www.mvvainc.com/project.php?id=114

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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 01 Nov 2016 09:38

Wow... They've gone to some length to try and hide that tollway. But sure enough, it's still there... like a stubborn carpet stain hiding beneath a throw rug.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby art_suckz » 01 Nov 2016 10:19

And... tiny lakes. They should nix half of those pointless tree-island things.

I mostly like it.
Image
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 01 Nov 2016 10:41

Lightly scanning through some of this stuff, I still don't see a plan that loosens the flood water choke point between Corinth and Cedar Crest...

choke.jpg
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dukemeredith
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby dukemeredith » 01 Nov 2016 11:57

Does anyone have hope that construction (or even planning sufficient to satisfy a reasonable person) will actually begin by September 2019?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 23 Nov 2016 09:24

http://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/20 ... ilding-it/

The Corps Has Already Approved a Road-Less Trinity Park. So Why Aren’t We Building It?

Sadly, the Trinity River Project is still all about that blasted toll road, whether we admit it to ourselves or not.

BY PETER SIMEK PUBLISHED IN FRONTBURNER NOVEMBER 22, 2016
...in April 2015, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers made its “Record of Decision” on the Dallas Floodway Project, aka the Trinity River Project ... The city – and the corps – wanted to make sure the park could be built with or without the road...

The corps approved both plans.

... The 1998 bond election set aside $11 million for the construction of the Trinity lakes and $36 million for the construction of the earthen “bench” that the toll road is supposed to sit on. Scrape the lakes and the toll road from the already-approved plan for the park, and we have $47 million ready to spend on making the rest of the park – the wetlands, the access points, the restored native landscaping and ecological remediation.

Then there is that $50 million that has been generously committed by the Annette Simmons for the park. That’s nearly $100 million to spend on a park that we could start building today.

...the road, Rawlings admits, is still the thing that is holding up the construction of the parks.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby gshelton91 » 28 Nov 2016 11:37

If NTTA pulls out of this then surely this can finally move forward. I really like the new plan that seems to solve some of the big problems with the previous plans. Taking the road out should simplify everything.

Architect website has lots of pictures:

http://www.mvvainc.com/project.php?id=114

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 28 Nov 2016 11:53

^This deal has been such a beat-down, and for such a long time that I've stopped trying to become familiar with the plan-du-jour, but I'm brought back to an actual low level of excitement by the pictures shown on that link! Notably, the picture that might show new life for Turtle Creek... it kinda looks like the creek is daylighted to enter the flood plain in the 'shelf' and widen into one of the lakes before meeting the Trinity....



...on a side note, I wonder why I wasn't all-into posting the maps before, like I have been since the forum reboot. hrumph
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby maconahey » 29 Nov 2016 15:44


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rasec33
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby rasec33 » 11 Dec 2016 21:59

I found this video of the original plans for the Trinity River from 2009. It's very interesting to see what has been completed and what is still missing! Would've been nice to have the lakes!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psmKI5JGgro

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 11 Dec 2016 23:16

rasec33 wrote:Would've been nice to have the lakes!


You mean the stock ponds?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 12 Dec 2016 12:30

The overkill on this park concept has been a mystery since the beginning. Meander the river, build paths that run along the now meandering river and plant some texas prairie grass. Project done.

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dukemeredith
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby dukemeredith » 13 Dec 2016 14:27

I imagine the cost of drudging a new river path will be costly, but it certainly isn't complicated. At least get the basics done with the money already in hand and fiddle with the niceties as funding increases.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 13 Dec 2016 15:50

Creating new river meanders will be harder than most think. A quick look at the mess created by the Corps of Engineer failing Lower Chain of Wetlands project is one good example. River took the wetlands back in the last flood. Only through enormous spending and construction are they fixing it.

The "trails" being built down there are not ADA compliant. Not many seem to care, since the policy makers and managers are so far removed from the project.

It is impressive to sit in the audience of an urban land planning presentation and listen to the ignorance of the presenters. I wonder why notable professionals would back projects so flawed? Cost me about $800 in FOIA requests and six months to figure all that out.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 13 Dec 2016 15:56

^^^ Welcome back Casper. :)

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 03 Jan 2017 15:35

casperitl wrote:Creating new river meanders will be harder than most think. A quick look at the mess created by the Corps of Engineer failing Lower Chain of Wetlands project is one good example. River took the wetlands back in the last flood. Only through enormous spending and construction are they fixing it.

The "trails" being built down there are not ADA compliant. Not many seem to care, since the policy makers and managers are so far removed from the project.

It is impressive to sit in the audience of an urban land planning presentation and listen to the ignorance of the presenters. I wonder why notable professionals would back projects so flawed? Cost me about $800 in FOIA requests and six months to figure all that out.


So this raises more questions. I would assume that we will flood again so when that happens, the money we spend rebuilding the now destroyed wetlands will be destroyed again, thus starting a vicious cycle. On top of that if the river is meandered against its will the floods will also take that back. This reminds me of the discussion that took place years ago when people on this forum raised questions about the wisdom of lakes that would eventually be flooded and potentially damaged or as it would appear, likely damaged. And to be honest the floods could have been worse, much worse.

How does a city that does not have enough money to pay for road upkeep and is potentially going to be bankrupted by a pension scam have money to rebuild wetlands destroyed in a flood that will probably be destroyed again?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby gshelton91 » 05 Jan 2017 10:43

/\ Actually i would say that the straight line river that is there now is more against the rivers nature than adding the meanders back in. Most rivers like the Trinity naturally meander just look at the old banks of the Trinity (now in the Design District).

I am sure doing this project will come with some currently unexpected difficulties but I think in balance having the Trinity River Bottom more available for use by Dallas Citizens is worth effort. This latest design really seems to be the best at integrating many of the concerns of flooding that have been raised. I think it also seems much less contrived than the previous designs - finally we are seeing the Trinity River and what it can be rather than trying to duplicate what some other city has done.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 05 Jan 2017 11:10

gshelton91 wrote:/\ Actually i would say that the straight line river that is there now is more against the rivers nature than adding the meanders back in. Most rivers like the Trinity naturally meander just look at the old banks of the Trinity (now in the Design District).


True story... Rivers naturally meander along relatively flat ground. For the purposes of flood water management, it's actually the corps that wants both the meander and added vegetation put back into the flood plain. This is needed to correct a problem originally created by the corps that causes the potential flood waters to move artificially faster through the current structure than they previously would have, which then causes water management problems downstream.

Ironically, it's that artificial water speed, followed by the sudden spread/slowing of water just south of Dallas (allows seeds to fall to the bottom) that gave birth to the 'Great Trinity Forrest'... which prior to these flood control manners, was mostly made up of farm land.

The real maintenance challenge would come from any man made structures built into the flood plain. This is a lesson learned with Campion Trail along the elm fork. Just in the last two years, both a boat launch and two significant sections of trail were significantly compromised by flood waters. They've been closed for some time, and only now are being repaired.

Hopefully the Trinity River Park is able to manage these challenges. Some of the renderings appear to show significant concrete banks along the river. That could be a challenge.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby jsoto3 » 12 Mar 2017 12:50

I went to an interesting symposium put on by D Magazine last week regarding the past, present, and potential future of the Trinity River Corridor. There is now a push by many to keep the plans very simple and to "rewild" the space between the levees. Here is a recap and follow up from D Magazine:

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... -the-past/
http://interactive.dmagazine.com/conten ... tatus-quo/
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... ity-river/

Image

Moderator: Peter Simek (D Magazine)

How Did We Get Here?
Don Raines, Michael Bastien, and Ignacio Bunster-Ossa, three designers and consultants who worked on the Balanced Vision Plan, will discuss the history and features of the only federally approved plan for the Trinity River.

How to “Wild” the Trinity?
Landscape Architect and Urban Planner Kevin Sloan, Dallas Park Board Member and Master Naturalist Rebecca Howe Rader, Audubon Texas’ Urban Conservation Program Manager Dr. Tania Homayoun, and horticulturist Dr. Robert E. Moon will talk about making the Trinity basin's subtle and delicate natural ecology the focus of the park.

How Do We Move Forward?
Finally, Dallas City Councilman Scott Griggs, former Dallas City Councilwoman Angela Hunt, and Texas State Rep. Rafael Anchia will talk about the political realities of moving forward and how we can use the broad outline of the Balanced Vision Plan to “re-wild” the Trinity River.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 07 Apr 2017 10:26

A quick excerpt from a Downtown Dallas Inc big-wig glowing in commentary about Boeing's new business division picking Plano as headquarters:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... erang-d-fw

"If we were where we are today in 2001 when they came here, there is no question they would choose downtown Dallas," he said. "They only thing people can pick on us today is we don't have any mountains and we don't have any oceans. I'm going to work on that before I retire."


Sentiments like this, pervasive and maudlin within Dallas Booster Clubs, has a cumulative impact on me now days. Head scratching a decade ago, and now it just pisses me off.

The first time I ever encountered one of the Grand Vision for the flood channel was at The DMA. An exhibition featuring giant maps in the vaulted gallery presented a fantastic park with a variety of woods, meadows, trails and fields for all sorts of stuff. No Tollroad, of course, since that component hardly ever was given accurate impact in any of the selling materials.

As time went by, the amenities packages for the Trinity River Park continued to skew more toward Amusement Park than Nature Park.

It's like, as quality and variety of life in the downtown area improved, the biggest booster clubs vision for the park was distracted by the absence of mountains or oceans; self destructive envy turned into misguided overcompensation; egocentric comparisons of our river to their mountains and their oceanfronts triggered environmental engineering projects at the forefront of our capabilities; the urges of status seeking decision makers recklessly decreed an experience zone without peer.

So hear we are, AGAIN, complaining about natural attributes of different places, flailing to compensate with ingenuity and ability yet again never quite making it out of bed to get started. Completely ignoring the most compelling natural attributes of the area, hell-bent on molding something other that what we have, a River.

This is how aversion to a desire evolves into a cumulative impact. Instead of taking a river and working with it's nature to provide the best possible experience, those plans want to override it. Not only is that the wrong way to manipulate nature, it's dangerous and destructive.

I grew up enjoying 'going to the river' in a handful of Texas ecosystems, Great Plains, Coastal Plains and Blackland Prairie/Savannah. That's the experience Dallas needs to provide along the leveed flood plain and into the forest.

The Texas experience - going to the river - doesn't exist in Southern California or Northern Georgia. It's only found in North America where the Great Plains ease into the Gulf of Mexico.

What's so bad about that? Give me a break.

The amusement extravaganza belongs in Fair Park, the tailored topiary belong at The Arboretum. How in the world can The Trinity Trust even think about replicating both experiences between The Signature Bridges. The city is being held back by this lingering variation of social retardation.

The mountains and oceans enjoyed by folks in other places are beautiful on the horizon, and the recreation they provide is famous. To the populations that live within the realm of Mountain or Ocean, they are huge in nature, uninhabited and wild. That's what the park in Dallas lacks: nature. While river like The Trinity is not obvious on the horizon, the sated sunsets are telling.

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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 07 Apr 2017 11:04

I totally agree... The best possible course for the Trinity also happens to be one of the cheapest, and easiest. Go Natural. Carve some trails, get some vegitation going, and let nature do the rest. Our real work should be providing connectivity from outside the levees (parking, trails, etc).

But for the few of us who like to actually go in the river... I have to admit, I'd much rather dangle my feet in the Chattahoochee than in the Trinity. Pollution aside... we're kinda doomed by geology to an extent. But still... 90% of users are just going to enjoy it from outside the water. And that's just fine.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 07 Apr 2017 12:04

^Chattahoochee tubing and rafting parties through Atlanta doesn't happen anymore because the river water is unsafe, reaching an remaining at that condition since the early 2000's.

Since about half the population of Texas gets it drinking water from the Trinity River, the state should mandate and pay for clean water facility and infrastructure. Program and system should starts in Wise, Denton, Parker, Tarrant and Collin Counties, culminating in Dallas Trinity River Park.

The Sunbelt City to figure out pollution control and provide its residents with year-round clean air and water will be the Sunbelt City with Alpha World City impact.

It all starts with an ego-check at the Dallas Citizen Council. Put the money into Fair Park, directly and without a Walt Humann et al Plan for pubic money mill. *GAWH*

The Park and Recreation plan for Dallas and the rest of North Texas is so obvious as to what is needed where, but the municipal leaders just cannot break the will of the old money decision making.

If the DCC doesn't want to put the money into Fair Park, then focus solely on landing a professional baseball team in a stadium at Reunion Arena or I-45 @ I-30. *sigh* **GAWH**

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 07 May 2017 16:18

So, did the city council election tip the balance in favor of the park instead of tollroad?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 May 2017 09:01

We are waiting on the runoffs to know that. I believe as of now we are down one Anti Tollroad vote. D. Carraway has been for the Tollway.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby electricron » 09 May 2017 16:31

tamtagon wrote:If the DCC doesn't want to put the money into Fair Park, then focus solely on landing a professional baseball team in a stadium at Reunion Arena or I-45 @ I-30. *sigh* **GAWH**

Why focus on building a baseball park when.no one has asked for one?
Have the Rangers hinted they will leave Arlington? Has any other major league team shown any interest what-so-ever moving to Dallas? Has MLB hinted they will be expanding soon? When you find a yes answer to those three questions, that's when you start thinking about building a new baseball park. Until then, forget about it!


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