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Trinity River Park

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 18 Jun 2018 22:39

Odd that people like the Mayor keep using the term "game changer". None of these projects are "game changer" league.

The Standing Wave is in violation of the River and Harbors Act, Clean Water Act. It was built illegally. The Standing Wave was an interesting place to visit but was horribly built and a real roadblock to navigation of the river.

The Corps of Engineers authored a Record of Decision regarding the Balanced Vision Plan. This was produced before any kind of grand new park was planned. The new park and all the renderings of meanders, concrete, trees must somehow fit into that Balanced Vision Plan or it will all need to go back to the Corps of Engineers for another decision. MVVA out of New York City is supposed to figure out if that can be accomplished.

Really, if you are reading this, you have no say in the matter. The Dallas City Council gave away 10,000 acres of public property to a Local Government Corporation which then hired the Trinity Park Conservancy as a contractor to build the park. The public is out of the scene now. The decision making process came full circle with some of the same bad decision makers now in charge of the newly promised projects.

City staff and city council failed as shepherds of these projects. I hold those members of city government personally accountable for ruining and squandering the opportunities that should have come to fruition. They had the budget, money and votes to build something special. They ruined it. It will take two generations from now for this to get fixed.

I think it's $150-250 million that needs to be raised very quickly now. Time is running out on the original timeline.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Jun 2018 08:30

Thanks for the more detailed update the reality is there are no current blueprints for the park we just have concept renderings and no money to build whatever is proposed in the final blueprints. If you guys can find 150-250 million in Dallas 1% pockets waiting to be squandered on a project that has proven it won't happen then be my guest. I gave my last vote of support to this project year ago. I will no longer support any money spent on the Trinity River boondoggle and if given the chance will actively vote down money spent if that chance is ever given to me again.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 19 Jun 2018 10:37

There are plans for the park but you won't have input on them. It is not your park. It is a private park that the public can access some of the time.

Ideally, the $150-250 million would be paid by the real estate developers who hold the real estate straddling the County Jail. Without a grand park plan, they will not have a park.

The 1998 Trinity River Project will likely be viewed decades from now as a bust. Nearly all the money has been spent and there is very little to show for it. Some will point to the Trinity River Audubon Center as a bright light. It loses hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in addition to poor attendance. More of a private wedding venue and golf tournament rental space than educational center now. The Horse Park never got off the ground. There is a new private horse facility 5 minutes away south of I-20 that does it better.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 19 Jun 2018 12:50

^And a not so successful private golf course wearing a public golf course sheepskin.

DPatel304
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 19 Jun 2018 17:23

This thread and the Fair Park thread both make me sad when I think about what they both 'could be'.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Jul 2018 11:25

The 200-Acre Harold Simmons Park Between The Trinity River Levees Moves Forward
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... d/?ref=mpw

As I suspected, nothing really new is being said in this article. They mentioned the need for $200 million a few times in the article. It really seems, to me, like they are really just waiting for private entities to step up and fund this thing, and all these articles are just a way to ask for the money.

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exelone31
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby exelone31 » 20 Jul 2018 11:50

DPatel304 wrote:The 200-Acre Harold Simmons Park Between The Trinity River Levees Moves Forward
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... d/?ref=mpw

As I suspected, nothing really new is being said in this article. They mentioned the need for $200 million a few times in the article. It really seems, to me, like they are really just waiting for private entities to step up and fund this thing, and all these articles are just a way to ask for the money.


Yeah, that headline is very clickbait-y. They say move forward in the headline, but then repeatedly state in the article that there's not enough money and no design in place for the park. Momentum seems slim at this point.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 20 Jul 2018 12:09

Harold Simmons Park, named for the billionaire nuclear waste disposal magnate, was born from a $50 million gift from his widow, Annette Simmons. The Conservancy got $10 million up front, but the other $40 million is locked up pending naming rights, establishment of a governance structure to build and maintain the park, and raising enough money to the tune of the Simmons’ family’s “reasonable satisfaction” by next September.


Forbes said Harold Simmons (rest in peace) was worth $10 billion when he died. How about upping the gift. Sometimes the family fortunes are owed back to the society from which they were taken.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Jul 2018 12:27

So the new Trinity Park concept is only between the Continental Bridge Park and 35 according to the article correct? Well that's a sizable drop from previously planned improvements all along the flood zone.

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exelone31
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby exelone31 » 20 Jul 2018 12:31

cowboyeagle05 wrote:So the new Trinity Park concept is only between the Continental Bridge Park and 35 according to the article correct? Well that's a sizable drop from previously planned improvements all along the flood zone.


I believe that's just the area that the Simmons' gift applies to. Ultimately the idea is to "enhance" everything, whatever form that ends up taking.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Jul 2018 12:31

cowboyeagle05 wrote:So the new Trinity Park concept is only between the Continental Bridge Park and 35 according to the article correct? Well that's a sizable drop from previously planned improvements all along the flood zone.


I thought this had been the plan for a while.

I'm all for scaling this project down though. Just start small and let it grow over time.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 20 Jul 2018 13:30

I know the Van Valkenburgh plan is still in the design stages, but I can't look at that rendering without wondering if it's physically possible without lots and lots of retaining walls to hold up those winding trails.

I have a feeling that once those more realistic renderings are released, it'll remind potential donors of the ugly retaining walls on the white water feature (and the absolutely abhorrent waste of money that was).

I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 20 Jul 2018 15:29

I don't think the Corp would allow retaining walls like you speak of. Let me put it this way the Corp has objected to trees, shrubs and natural plantings for decades now. They require that everything down there has to be mowed down regularly like it's a suburban lawn which, to be honest, is why it looks so dumpy in most of the time. I don't foresee much of anything beyond maybe a realignment of the river itself as more wavy and some better trail way routes that connect things better. The reason the flood zone is the way it is is that the Army Corp of Engineers has determined its function as a large area for excess water during rainstorms supersedes all other needs and desires. I am no longer convinced the Trinity Conservancy can get the Corp to agree to anything beyond some minor million dollars of lipstick on this pig.

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The_Overdog
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby The_Overdog » 23 Jul 2018 09:26

I'm actually good with retaining walls. They have them up and down coasts and in my opinion they can look good with some quality design. The problem with river fronts in DFW is they are the natural home of boatloads of poison ivy and brambles, so some level of retaining walls and mowing is going to be have to part of the plan to make the river 'usable'.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 23 Jul 2018 10:52

Retaining wall, shelf, terrace.... all are almost certain to play a critical role as the park slowly slowly comes together.

Flood control is first and foremost the function of the open land. The section(s) of the flood-way re-constructed for use by people as playground, athletic fields, park-plaza-patio, picnic, performance venue(s) can very easily sit atop flash flood mitigation infrastructure.

No doubt: the pumps, pipes, culverts, cisterns and underground passages required to rush the flood water downstream will find welcome camouflage and symbiotic structural with the retaining walls elevating the active recreational pedestals.

The_Overdog wrote:... river fronts in DFW is they are the natural home of boatloads of poison ivy and brambles, so some level of retaining walls and mowing is going to be have to part of the plan to make the river 'usable'.


I'm hoping we'll have an educational farm and ranch "attraction" in the Park; the different flocks and herds providing prairie, riparian and forest glen flora maintenance as well as milk and BBQ. The Dallas Zoo Wildlife Conservation programs can take a significant role with indigenous threatened and endangered species breeding programs, essentially a restocking program for the Trinity River Basin from the Cedar Creek confluence. Educational facilities, recreational facilities, barns, wetlands all on a shelf! When it's time to 'mow' the basin, the animals do the work and the aqua-system gently cleanses the river from North, South and East Beltline Roads.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 24 Jul 2018 08:33

I am super interested in seeing infrastructure that can be built in the floodway. I think concrete cattle are all that stand down there. Quite a bit might be possible if it fits within the Balanced Vision Plan and is near maintenance free.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 24 Jul 2018 09:16

I still think the parks should be built along the river rather than in it, with large new retaining walls and boardwalks lining it, and filling in a large section of it as a lake like Austin did.

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muncien
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby muncien » 24 Jul 2018 11:04

"the Corp has objected to trees, shrubs and natural plantings for decades now."

This is not true... The corp actually requires the planting of vegetation with any project within the levees to slow down the flow of water. As it stands now, the flow is artificially too fast and causes a bottleneck at the bottom. They have learned much since this thing was first constructed.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 24 Jul 2018 11:41

Working with nature turns out to be so much better than trying to strong-arm it into compliance.

Little is more natural along the Trinity River than seasonal floods. This is good for the water, good for the river, good for the plants, good for animals and good for people -- as long as they let nature take it's course.

The limited flash flood containment system of the past becomes a marvel of human engineering when converted into a water purification system with abundant recreational opportunities.

There's as many potential things to do along the river as the seashore or mountain ski slope. Dallas has been so stupid to ignore the natural bounty and beauty possible when multiple ecosystems meet, while fretting about the lack of ocean and mountain views.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Cord1936 » 29 Jul 2018 22:41

Note to City of Dallas: do this with the envisioned grand Trinity River Lakes and Park!

There are ways to tame this problem ... Bangkok has set the standard with a tiny 11 acre park that is a huge sponge!

Just imagine what could be done with the amount of land available in the Trinity basin ... I admit I haven't read the entire article all the way through but it just seems to be a perfect solution for our Trinity flooding problem.

Image
Image
This oasis of green in the hyper-developed city has an important job: it can contain one million gallons of water. Here’s how.

When Bangkok floods (and it floods a lot), this park does something amazing
Jul 20, 2018 / Patrick D'Arcy / IDEAS.TED.COM

...
Voraakhom’s latest completed project is a dazzling park in the center of Bangkok, set on the campus of Chulalongkorn University. She has transformed 11 city acres — land worth an estimated $700 million USD — into Chulalongkorn University Centennial Park, a lush, green oasis featuring ample space for outdoor meetings, an amphitheatre, a massive lawn for recreation, playgrounds, even a small museum. Since it opened in March 2017, the park has been a huge draw for students and residents (one local podcast called it a “hidden gem”). And while 11 acres (or 44,415 square meters) may not sound like much, any new park in green space-starved Bangkok is a big deal. According to Siemens Green City Index, Bangkok has just 3.3 square meters of green space per person (by contrast, Manila has 5; Paris, 11; Shanghai, 13.5; New York City, 23.1; London, 27; Singapore, 66).

But CU Park plays other important functions for the flood-prone city too: it collects and cleans water and reduces the urban heat island. The most amazing part of CU Park? It can hold nearly one million gallons of water during severe floods. (To put that into context, one million gallons is equivalent to an American football field being completely filled with water at a depth of 1.13 meters, or 3.71 feet.)

Essentially, Voraakhom has created a flood-proof park by building it to flood.

...
Full article: https://ideas.ted.com/when-bangkok-floods-and-it-floods-a-lot-this-park-does-something-amazing/

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 30 Jul 2018 14:51

It can hold nearly one million gallons of water during severe floods.


To provide context, at flood stage over five million gallons a minute flows by downtown Dallas.

According to https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tx/nwis/uv/? ... 0065,00060, the record flow is 22,400 cubic feet per second, which translates to over 10 million gallons per minute.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 30 Jul 2018 14:54

True, but they are also only working with a mere 11 acres.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby LongonBigD » 30 Jul 2018 16:28

Dallas already has this. Cole Park sits above a giant flood water holding tank to hold excess water storage when the Central Expy water drainage system is overloaded.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby electricron » 30 Jul 2018 19:33

What works elsewhere will probably not work in Dallas. While I think it is great to look around the world and see what other cities have done with floodways, Dallas should decide for itself what it wants.

What works best in Dallas, usually what has one or more champions proposing, running, and willing to maintain it. Take Klyde Warren and Fair Parks as examples. What the Trinity Park needs is a champion!

Trinity Park is so huge that everybody wants a piece of it, and therefore it’s going to be a implemented as a disaster when everything gets built within it as cheaply as possible. Look at the various failures already associated with it. Somebody or some entity needs to take charge, and make everything fit seamlessly and efficiently. I suggest looking at Atlanta’s Beltline for how to organize this large park. Even Disneyland was built to the completed plans approved by one champion.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jul 2018 09:46

The Beltline is run much better than the Katy Trail that's for sure.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 31 Jul 2018 11:31

^ Interesting comment. I feel the FOTKT do an excellent job of running the trail. How do you think they could do better?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Jul 2018 14:15

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ Interesting comment. I feel the FOTKT do an excellent job of running the trail. How do you think they could do better?


Further integration of commercial and retail interests along the trail. The Friends of KT have predominantly focused on primarily the continued residential property integration and showing displeasure for any other property type integration. I was amazed by the Beltline because when I walked it there was a mixture of both quiet serene residential property areas and bars/restaurants integrated along the way. Many in the Friends of KT group from what I can tell are against anything that isn't maintaining a status quo of quiet serene atmosphere for the full length of the trail. It's a vision question for sure and neither vision is empirically wrong just I preferred the Beltline's experience over that of our own.

Also, the Beltline had a lot more artwork and sculpture which I appreciated as well. I love the quietness of nature as much as anyone in an urban setting. I am an Eagle Scout and love being in nature without too much-formalized dressing of it but the Katy Trail still seems to be held back by the current vision.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 31 Jul 2018 15:47

That isn't something FOKT is necessarily doing wrong, they just, like you said, have a different vision.

Personally, I'm not sure what would be better. I do like the idea of a pedestrian only trail lined with residential, restaurants, etc.., but it's also nice to have a quiet 'escape' from the noise of urban life.

Perhaps Turtle Creek (in the Design District) might be a better candidate for what you are envisioning. The trail is already lined with many under-development buildings that could be converted, torn down, and also decorated with street art.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 31 Jul 2018 16:06

DPatel304 wrote:That isn't something FOKT is necessarily doing wrong, they just, like you said, have a different vision.

Personally, I'm not sure what would be better. I do like the idea of a pedestrian only trail lined with residential, restaurants, etc.., but it's also nice to have a quiet 'escape' from the noise of urban life.


Agreed. The "escape" is what makes the trail great.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 01 Aug 2018 10:02

I disagree but that's why I put it the way I did. There are plenty of escape trails in Dallas and I would like to see "Beltline like" options in Dallas and the Katy makes sense in some of its intersections with the roadway. I am not advocating a removal of plant life in exchange for rows and rows of bar drunk patios but in a few spots that make sense where the trail crosses commercial areas. More than the one Katy Trail Ice House option please.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby The_Overdog » 02 Aug 2018 08:49

Most of the trails in the metro are isolated away from development and even housing to a large extent. I see what you are saying - that not every single one needs to be built like that.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby ContriveDallasite » 02 Aug 2018 08:52

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I disagree but that's why I put it the way I did. There are plenty of escape trails in Dallas and I would like to see "Beltline like" options in Dallas and the Katy makes sense in some of its intersections with the roadway. I am not advocating a removal of plant life in exchange for rows and rows of bar drunk patios but in a few spots that make sense where the trail crosses commercial areas. More than the one Katy Trail Ice House option please.


I disagee as well, I think the Katy Trail is Uptowns only "backyard" so to speak. The shoplined canals/paths should definitely go to the under developed trails that meander in to the Design District. There they would really not be disturbing the "escape" feel of the trail and will also give people a reason to cross over the highway.

I know that bridges are a sensitive topic on this forum, but I would absolutely advocate a bridge over the highway connecting the two trails. If Mark Cuban and the other stakeholders in the design district advocated something like this, I think it would be a win win for the city and the property owners.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 02 Aug 2018 10:49

Dallas taxpayers already voted for the bridge to connect the Katy Trail to the Design District. The people advocating for that now have to figure out if the sales pitch they sold voters is valid. News that I-35 will likely be expanded and/or double decked would likely kill that plan and push funding down the road.

The Katy Trail is a real estate play. Now that the trail has expansive entrances and overlooks it is not much of what it once was. Look for it to be maxed out density wise in another decade or so. Might even get to where the sun rarely shines on it save for midday.

"The Loop" or "Circuit" trail system is a real estate play and has everything to do with increasing real estate development. Nothing more.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Aug 2018 08:59

Should we discuss the reality that the part of the city that is publicly blamed for mismanagement of the Trinity River Watershed is now dissolved?

The Trinity Watershed Management is being merged into Dallas Utilities and staff reassigned as needed. This is the org that basically approved of things like the Standing Wave and the mismanagement of the bridge arches we cannot safely use across the Trinity. The City Manager says this will allow the city to manage its water resources more holistically which in principle I agree. The "Trinity Park" control has been handed off to that private org the mayor created. Let's hope between the two major changes in the structures overlooking the Trinity flood zone we will see some positive changes.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 13 Aug 2018 18:23

Nothing will change until Mary Suhm's legacy of destruction can be undone. Her pet projects fell apart. The individuals responsible are still employed by the taxpayers.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Aug 2018 08:52

What rock is she hiding under again?

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 14 Aug 2018 10:19

casperitl wrote: News that I-35 will likely be expanded and/or double decked would likely kill that plan and push funding down the road.

The Katy Trail is a real estate play.


I think there's reason to hope the Downtown Dallas area will be spared the reckless highway building of the past. Even the most ridiculous pigheaded engineering decision makers have to have acknowledged the hindsight vision uncovering mistakes of the past.... perhaps beginning with racist redlining highway routes.

The contemporary flash and awe appeasements represented by the deck parks are an expensive step in the right direction, but actual progress on highway construction plans that serve the host neighborhoods as well as traffic flow can only happen when a highway is rebuilt like I-35.

Rebuild I-35 so thru traffic moves more freely past the downtown area, rebuild I-35 so peak commuting efficiently enters and exits the highway system, and rebuild I-35 so the host neighborhoods are no longer separated by a cancerous mass of highway.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 19 Aug 2018 08:59

I think the focus should be on supporting a reWILDing effort between the levees.

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tamtagon
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby tamtagon » 19 Aug 2018 09:40

casperitl wrote:I think the focus should be on supporting a reWILDing effort between the levees.


This is the ONLY option in my world.

Somewhere along the way, I do want a shelf or podium park full of all the bells and whistles, but the length of the river channeled by levees should be keystone source of the region's drinking water.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 22 Aug 2018 22:06

casperitl wrote:I think the focus should be on supporting a reWILDing effort between the levees.


I've never understood why we would try anything other than this. It floods and leaves a ton of mud and debris behind which then has to be cleaned up. All of that costs money and once its cleaned up it could happen again the next day.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby whit5125 » 23 Aug 2018 09:39

Tnexster wrote:
casperitl wrote:I think the focus should be on supporting a reWILDing effort between the levees.


I've never understood why we would try anything other than this. It floods and leaves a ton of mud and debris behind which then has to be cleaned up. All of that costs money and once its cleaned up it could happen again the next day.


While I support the park I tend to agree, although a more expensive but still less expensive than the full park option is to pull a Lady Bird Lake and just make this thing a shallow lake with a short dam and flood control device down river past the Cedars. It would not only look pretty cool but maintenance would be easier, plus you have an urban lake that can be taken full advantage of for entertainment and still would serve the flood control purpose without massive reworking aside from the initial (again short) dam.

They wouldnt even have to get rid of those massive embankments but instead simply plant tons of trees on those to make them more appealing and only rework the ones close to access points to the "lake" or near prime real estate areas.

That is the option that should be pursued.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby DPatel304 » 23 Aug 2018 10:21

^That would be my dream for the Trinity River Park, but it seems like a long shot at this point. We'll be lucky if we get any sort of park at all, let alone something similar to Lady Bird Lake.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby electricron » 24 Aug 2018 11:32

whit5125 wrote: They wouldnt even have to get rid of those massive embankments but instead simply plant tons of trees on those to make them more appealing and only rework the ones close to access points to the "lake" or near prime real estate areas.

That is the option that should be pursued.


Wow, if they did what you proposed, downtown Dallas and all its’ surrounding neighborhoods would flood every time it rained hard!

Those embankments, a better word is levee, exist because the ground level within isn’t that much lower than on the outside. The embankments are treeless because tree roots weakens the embankments making it easier for them to fail. Water always seeks the path of less resistance, and a weakness in the levee is where it will fail.

Making it look pretty as much as possible without considering ihow it was designed to work is a sure fire way to make Dallas a ghost town!

Whatever is done to make it pretty and functional for other purposes should always remember it is a floodway first!

San Antonio’s riverwalk works because they rembered it is a floodway first.
Last edited by electricron on 24 Aug 2018 11:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 24 Aug 2018 11:35

Let's just hire Dutch engineers to make it into a canal. Atleast there is hope they know what they're doing.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 24 Aug 2018 14:04

DPatel304 wrote:^That would be my dream for the Trinity River Park, but it seems like a long shot at this point. We'll be lucky if we get any sort of park at all, let alone something similar to Lady Bird Lake.


It will happen. Perhaps there needs to be more of a focus nature oriented. Maybe a national conservation group could take it on as a project. It would allow people to do recreational activities while building back a more natural floodplain.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 24 Aug 2018 14:53

electricron wrote:
whit5125 wrote: They wouldnt even have to get rid of those massive embankments but instead simply plant tons of trees on those to make them more appealing and only rework the ones close to access points to the "lake" or near prime real estate areas.

That is the option that should be pursued.


Wow, if they did what you proposed, downtown Dallas and all its’ surrounding neighborhoods would flood every time it rained hard!

Those embankments, a better word is levee, exist because the ground level within isn’t that much lower than on the outside. The embankments are treeless because tree roots weakens the embankments making it easier for them to fail. Water always seeks the path of less resistance, and a weakness in the levee is where it will fail.


Whit said they WOULDN'T get rid of the embankments. Nobody is saying get rid of the embankments. Obviously, they are necessary. As I have proposed before, strengthen the embankments by building a brick/cement wall in front of them and then a wooden boardwalk on top of the embankments, then damn up the river and create a shallow lake ala Lady Bird Lake. Voila! Better flood protection, the city now has a waterfront worth visiting, and the edges of the boardwalk can be developed with parks and new retail/entertainment/residential/office.

Tnexster
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Tnexster » 26 Aug 2018 17:15

Why can't we let the Trinity be a river, seems like its original and best purpose is being a river and being such makes it a great wildlife habitat that in itself would be the attraction.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 27 Aug 2018 09:12

Tnexster wrote:Why can't we let the Trinity be a river, seems like its original and best purpose is being a river and being such makes it a great wildlife habitat that in itself would be the attraction.


I think that because the river was literally moved away from Downtown, it is no longer natural, and we cannot expect it to be some beautiful natural habitat. The path of the river was moved into a floodplain long ago. It will require some man-made engineering to make it look "natural" anyway, so we might as well explore all options into making it something that improves quality of life in this city and can be used for recreation. The original path of the Trinity took it very close to the Old Red Courthouse, just to put that in perspective.

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casperitl
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby casperitl » 27 Aug 2018 10:53

Tnexster wrote:Why can't we let the Trinity be a river, seems like its original and best purpose is being a river and being such makes it a great wildlife habitat that in itself would be the attraction.


It is very much possible. One just needs to divorce themselves from the mindset that the river bottom must be festooned with amenities to make it an attraction.

The mindset of the Trinity River Project 1998 is now 20 years old and needs to go away. The money is gone. The projects have varying degrees of failure(not success). The smart way to move forward is to adapt to the river itself.

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Matt777
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Re: Trinity River Park

Postby Matt777 » 27 Aug 2018 14:32

casperitl wrote:
Tnexster wrote:Why can't we let the Trinity be a river, seems like its original and best purpose is being a river and being such makes it a great wildlife habitat that in itself would be the attraction.


It is very much possible. One just needs to divorce themselves from the mindset that the river bottom must be festooned with amenities to make it an attraction.

The mindset of the Trinity River Project 1998 is now 20 years old and needs to go away. The money is gone. The projects have varying degrees of failure(not success). The smart way to move forward is to adapt to the river itself.


But it isn't a river bottom.... it is not the original river. It is a floodplain where the original river was rerouted to. Way off it's course. It is unnatural and man-made unless it is returned to it's original course. That will never happen because it would mean destroying most of Victory Park, I-35 around downtown, all that stuff.

It's a man-made problem and it needs a man-made solution..... it won't be natural ever.


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