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Dallas Love Field Airport

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Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Tnexster » 27 Oct 2016 09:33

Dallas Love Field officials again eyeing 'people mover' linking airport to light rail

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/love ... light-rail

Out of nowhere Monday afternoon, a brief update about the massive parking garage currently under construction at Dallas Love Field turned into breaking news about a possible "people mover" connecting the airport with at least one Dallas Area Rapid Transit light-rail station.

Mark Duebner, head of Dallas' Aviation Department, mentioned it in passing to the Dallas City Council's Budget, Finance and Audit Committee when asked, as he often is, about the possibility of one day bringing light rail to Love.


Runway 18-36 near Denton Drive, which was closed in 2011 as part of the Love Field Modernization Program, will be eliminated in January. The former crosswind runway will reconfigured as a taxiway once it's finally taken off line early next year.

And when that happens, Duebner said, "it allows us greater flexibility for what we can do on the north end of the airport."

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Tnexster » 02 Dec 2016 21:32


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Boomerreed
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Boomerreed » 10 Jan 2017 10:00

The new garage is now above street level. Also, the pedestrian walkway connecting the garage to the upper level has been put into place over the weekend.

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby dfwcre8tive » 23 Jan 2017 00:40


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muncien
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby muncien » 23 Jan 2017 09:52

dfwcre8tive wrote:Here's a fun Jetrail video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q5T1_sUy1s

Thanks for sharing! I didn't even know that was ever there.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby tamtagon » 23 Jan 2017 10:54

I would ride that just for fun! What a view one of these would have from SWAirlines Dart station (aka Burbank) to the terminal!

Love Field is busy building car garages, and I understand that even if the need ends up being short term, and the lobby for International flights and more gates must a critical mandate for the city.... but the need to recreate the built environment at Love Field is possibly the one initiative that's unrestrained by politics and the like.

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Boomerreed
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Boomerreed » 23 Jan 2017 21:24

Having worked at the airport long enough, there are plans to do a few things to the facility. One is a concept to extend runway 31R/13L out over Bachman Lake and partly over NW Highway to accommodate larger planes. DO NOT ask me how that even seem feasible. Another, and one that is probably a touch more realistic, is to build another entry way from the north from Lemmon and ride underground and come above where the current A & B garages are. Lastly, consolidate the rental facilities into a single garage and perhaps redevelop part of the spaces into an on-property hotel.

I do not see anything feasible, with the exception of a consolidated rental facility, because where would the city cough up the dough?

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby tamtagon » 27 Jan 2017 11:07

dfwcre8tive wrote:Here's a fun Jetrail video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q5T1_sUy1s


Building some sort of people mover from the terminal to Bachman Station seems inevitable, but I really don't understand why all the concepts are in a tunnel. Is that to make the trip time the shortest possible?

The view of downtown from Love Field is excellent and would be a big bonus for airport if part of the trip for train-plane travelers. Elevated people mover is probably less expensive than a tunnel, and could be a motivating component to redevelopable land on Denton Drive.

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f4shionablecha0s
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby f4shionablecha0s » 27 Jan 2017 12:32

tamtagon wrote:
dfwcre8tive wrote:Here's a fun Jetrail video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q5T1_sUy1s


Building some sort of people mover from the terminal to Bachman Station seems inevitable, but I really don't understand why all the concepts are in a tunnel. Is that to make the trip time the shortest possible?

The view of downtown from Love Field is excellent and would be a big bonus for airport if part of the trip for train-plane travelers. Elevated people mover is probably less expensive than a tunnel, and could be a motivating component to redevelopable land on Denton Drive.

...there's a runway in the way...

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby tamtagon » 27 Jan 2017 12:43

View of the City Tram
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Tnexster » 03 Feb 2017 15:12

Delta keeps toehold at Love Field, for now, over Southwest Airlines’ objections

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... j=77282341

Delta can stay at Dallas Love Field, at least temporarily, despite Southwest Airlines’ attempt to jettison its rival carrier from the booming airport, a federal appeals court has ruled.

The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in a 2-1 ruling upheld a district court injunction that blocked Dallas-based Southwest (NYSE: LUV) from booting Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) while the case moves to trial.

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Tnexster » 16 Mar 2017 10:58

Love Field aviation director: 'No chance’ of international flights or further expansion

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... ce-of.html

The number of boardings alone has grown from 4.9 million in 2014 to 7.3 million in 2015 and 7.9 million last year. That’s still roughly a fourth of the approximately 33 million boardings at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, but that’s exactly the way city leaders and airport officials want it, so as to protect the economic engine that DFW Airport is for the region.

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Tnexster » 12 Apr 2017 12:51

Alaska Airlines to expand at Love Field

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... field.html

The carrier acquired Virgin America in December, positioning Alaska to fly from two gates Virgin leases at city-owned Love Field, where gate space is at a premium.

Alaska said it plans to start flights to Seattle; San Diego; San Jose, Calif.; and Portland, Ore. from Love Field by February.

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby tamtagon » 02 Nov 2017 07:28

I had been wondering if anything had been resolved, so , no, nothing resolved:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... ates-delta

...The filing is the latest in a long-running dispute between Southwest, Delta and the city over access to the limited space at city-owned Love Field, which is capped at 20 gates under the terms of the Wright Amendment Reform Act.

...While the number of affected flights — five per day — is small, the restrictions make Love Field’s gate space some of the most valuable real estate in U.S. airports.

...After two years, there’s still no end in sight for the case, barring a settlement ... as the case returns to North Texas District Court ...in... February 2019.


The stale, left over, lingering politico-legacy, cold war era legislation continues racking up legal-talking charges.

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flyswatter
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby flyswatter » 09 Nov 2017 13:42

A part of me is hoping that this is all a push to make the 20 gate limit cap go away. Every airline (especially SWA) currently wants to expand, but can't.

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby electricron » 09 Nov 2017 14:51

Who is using the Virgin America gates today?
Can’t Delta negotiate with them and leave Southwest alone?

Additionally, it was Dallas that pushed for the 20 gate limit, there will never be more than 20 gates at Love Field if Dallas never builds more. Almighty god can grant Love Field permission and cash to build more gates, but that doesn’t mean Dallas will spend the money to actually build more gates.

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 09 Nov 2017 15:20

1. Virgin was acquired by Alaska, and Alaska and has already begun the process of converting the schedule over to Alaska jets and destinations. The two airlines will be under one operating certificate in a few months and Virgin will cease to exist shortly thereafter.

2. I think the City is actively trying to come up with a solution now that this thing has dragged out in the courts. Right now there is more capacity in the Alaska gates than there is in the Southwest gates, but since its tied up in court, its gone nowhere. The City should have made arrangements a couple of years ago but defaulted making decisions to the courts.

3. The airport is prohibited by Federal Law from going beyond 20 gates, or from flying international. New federal law will have to be passed in order for that to change, regardless of what the City wants.



And honestly, not sure how the airport could handle anything beyond 20 gates without massive infrastructure improvements.

* A new garage is going in JUST to support the flood of new passengers, way beyond what was expected. There would need to be additional parking built, where would it go??
* The entrance into the airport on Cedar Springs is already insufficient, you'd have to build out an additional entrance on the northwest side of the airport.
* Expansion of the terminal concourses/gates is problematic. The easiest area to expand has already been taken by the new garage.
* Vehicular traffic outside the terminal for departures and arrivals is already an ever living mess.
* The main terminal and baggage claim are not built out for more than what they are supporting now. It is already pretty tight in there. A 50% increase in passengers would require expansion of both.

All to say, if you want to expand to a number of gates that would be worth the effort of expanding, say to 30 gates, you'd have to spend multiple billions on the entire property. Some of that billions would probably make sense to build a people mover to Burbank Station. The rest of it would have to go to the above and much much more...

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 10 Nov 2017 10:55

The airport used to have over 70 gates. It property certainly handle more than 20.

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flyswatter
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby flyswatter » 10 Nov 2017 11:26

A somewhat similar example to Love Field would be Chicago Midway (coincidentally another fortress hub for SWA). Very dense area using less surface area with only Cicero Ave being the main way in and out of the airport. Hell it's so tightly packed the TSA checkpoint is on a bridge over the 6 lane road. It has 7 million more passengers a year than Love Field and has 43 gates. They do fine, and it is one crazy busy place every time I fly through there.

Dallas should purchase the closed down DalFort Aerospace hanger on the north side of the field and build more parking/terminal there.

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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby tamtagon » 10 Nov 2017 11:34

^word

The whole eastern edge of the airport, flanking Lemmon Ave needs a complete redo. Access the terminal via underground moving sidewalk from the Flight Museum and from whatever that renovation project Lemmon@Lovers... This is where parking, office, hotel, restaurants and much of the aerotropolis stuff should go that will help pay for the rest of the airport improvements.


Dallas should purchase the closed down DalFort Aerospace hanger on the north side of the field and build more parking/terminal there.


Isn't someone fixing that place up? turning it into something unique-ish? oh wait, it's the building next to that, historic in nature, that's been tagged for update and refresh for a decade or so....

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 10 Nov 2017 11:38

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The airport used to have over 70 gates. It property certainly handle more than 20.


Sure it had 70 gates, but number of passengers in and out of the airport was nowhere near what it is today

"1973 saw Love Field, which had more than 70 gates and saw frequent Boeing 747 service, reach record enplanements at 6,668,398 as the eighth busiest airport in the United States. On January 13, 1974, DFW Airport opened, ending most passenger service at Love Field." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Love_Field

Enplanements in 2016 was 7,805,637 http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/sta ... ements.pdf

So Love Field is seeing 1.2 million more enplanements per year in 2016 than it did in it's 1973 heyday. Total Traffic (enplanements plus deplanements) is pushing 16 million. They are doing more with 20 gates than they ever did with 70 gates.


The airport is already busting at the seams, Dallas never anticipated it would grow this quickly. This article from 2014, DMN wondering if 6 million enplanements was even possible, and now the airport pushing 8 million. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... reasonable. Airport traffic has nearly doubled since 2011, and its almost triple what it was in 2003. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dallas_Love_Field

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 10 Nov 2017 12:04

tamtagon wrote:The whole eastern edge of the airport, flanking Lemmon Ave needs a complete redo. Access the terminal via underground moving sidewalk from the Flight Museum and from whatever that renovation project Lemmon@Lovers... This is where parking, office, hotel, restaurants and much of the aerotropolis stuff should go that will help pay for the rest of the airport improvements.


With tunnels under the runway, the Northeast Flank could be used for Parking, for sure. You possibly could extend the sterile area there and do baggage check-in and TSA Security there, but that would require significant changes in baggage handling as well.

But the Northeast flank of the airport doesn't address the size/number of the concourse/gates, baggage claim, passenger pick up and drop in front of the terminal, and a bunch of other considerations. You push this airport to 30 gates, it will easily be pushing 11 million enplanements.

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 10 Nov 2017 12:12

flyswatter wrote:A somewhat similar example to Love Field would be Chicago Midway (coincidentally another fortress hub for SWA). Very dense area using less surface area with only Cicero Ave being the main way in and out of the airport. Hell it's so tightly packed the TSA checkpoint is on a bridge over the 6 lane road. It has 7 million more passengers a year than Love Field and has 43 gates. They do fine, and it is one crazy busy place every time I fly through there.


Agree that Midway is a super busy airport, but to give you an idea of what Love Field is doing with 20 gates, here is some data for you...

In 2016, Chicago Midway enplaned 10.4 million passengers out of 43 gates. Love Field enplaned 7.8 million out of 20 gates. Let that sink in. You look at this chart and see the airports close to Love in regards to traffic...Portland has 60 gates. Lambert-St.Louis has ~ 65 gates.

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita ... 01_44.html

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Alex Rodriguez
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Re: Dallas Love Field Airport

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 10 Nov 2017 12:32

Last thing and I'll lay off...also remember that in 2017, Southwest retired 100 or so jets with 122 and 137 seats, a large percentage of those 733s and 735s were flying routes out of DAL. Now there is nothing but 143 and 175 seat jets flying out of Love, and the 175 seat fleet is the only type that will see growth going forward.

Meaning, even with the same schedule, and same number of gates, you can expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% growth between now and say 2019 2020. Not to mention what Alaska ends up doing, they should be busier than Virgin was out of their 2 gates. 9 Million enplanements is a possibility in 2020 just based on seats and the AS-VX Merger. That's nuts. 20 gates, 9 million pax. Unprecendented.


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