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Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 27 Aug 2018 05:19
by itsjrd1964
After TxDOT was ready to proceed with plans favoring Gaston and Garland Rd., some are showing a preference for a traditional T-shaped intersection.

TxDOT wants this option:
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What some residents would rather have:
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https://www.dallasnews.com/news/txdot/2 ... nterchange

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 27 Aug 2018 11:56
by Hannibal Lecter
NIMBYism at it's finest.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 27 Aug 2018 13:10
by The_Overdog
The flying lanes in the people recommended version seem much worse than the TXDot version. With those wings, that isn't a T intersection. It's your average highway interchange. A legit T would be better than either.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 01 Sep 2018 14:21
by Tnexster
The_Overdog wrote:The flying lanes in the people recommended version seem much worse than the TXDot version. With those wings, that isn't a T intersection. It's your average highway interchange. A legit T would be better than either.


I guess if you are just passing through the area you are looking for the least inconvenient way to get to where you are going, never mind what it looks like or does to the area around it.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 11:50
by Hannibal Lecter
Garland Road and Gaston were part of the Bankhead Highway, one of the earliest transcontinental highways. It stretched from Washington DC to San Diego. The highway was there before the development. To complain that people use it to pass through the neighborhood is like the people who move next an airport and complain about the noise.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 12:27
by tamtagon
Hannibal Lecter wrote: To complain that people use it to pass through the neighborhood is like the people who move next an airport and complain about the noise.


Well, just like Deep Ellum... a neighborhood with a history of harboring minorities, currently famous for bars and nightclubs, debauchery and perversions, and edged by persistent homeless camps, yet people who move there complain about it.

:D

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 12:52
by Tnexster
It's always that way, just like around here when coyotes and bobcats attack small cats and dogs and then people complain and want them trapped but do nothing to keep those pets contained. Why did you move here?

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 13:18
by electricron
It wasn’t until 1961 with the opening of Thorton Freeway (I-30) before US-67 and interstate trucking traffic left Gaston.
Can you imagine all those semi trucks using Stemmons to get through Dallas today on Gaston instead? That’s where they were before 1961.
The Bankhead Highway was also routed over the Houston Street Viaduct into Oak Cliff and eventually onto Davis heading towards Fort Worth.

FYI The Bankhead Highway ran from Washington DC.. to San Diego, it was a route designated by the Bankhead Highway Association; not by the Federal Government; which organized in 1916. There were several branches, alternate routes, along its way. One branch followed what we would call US 70 today, from Hot Springs to El Paso paralleling the route that followed US 67 and US 80 through DFW.
US routes were not designated until 1926, 10 years later. While many call these Federal highways vs State highways, they have always been built and maintained with State funding until 1995, when more highways, including US routes, were added to the National Highway System making them eligible for matching Federal funds.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 16:39
by tanzoak
Wow. Gaston gets twice the volume of Grand from Garland. And these people want to make the through movement go on Garland because maybe it'll trick drivers into taking the other route? lol

Look at that vehicle delay! The 1,596 vehicles going from Garland to Gaston would see their average delay increase from 4.8 seconds to 30.5 seconds under the residents' preferred option. And while the 868 going Garland to Grand would see their delay reduced, it wouldn't be reduced by nearly as much, and for half as many people (plus, this is likely underestimated, see below). Meanwhile the people on Gaston trying to get to Garland get totally hosed, with those 449 people having their delay quadrupled to 140 seconds from 36 seconds. Looking through it, almost every single movement is worse off.

I generally give very few craps about vehicle delay. But the idea is to get some benefit out of the increased delay (like bike lanes! or develop-able land!), not just adding delay for delay's sake.

*In reality, the delay for Garland to Grand travel would be higher than what's shown there because I doubt they've used microsimulation to get those delay estimates. Queuing on the slip lanes would result in increased delay for the through traffic that either got stuck behind them or was forced to use only the far left lane. Getting 800+ cars through what is effectively one through-lane is going to have much more delay that what they show.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 18:43
by flyswatter
People who move onto a 4 lane road in the city have no right to complain about traffic or road noise.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 04 Sep 2018 01:16
by itsjrd1964
electricron wrote:It wasn’t until 1961 with the opening of Thorton Freeway (I-30) before US-67 and interstate trucking traffic left Gaston.
Can you imagine all those semi trucks using Stemmons to get through Dallas today on Gaston instead? That’s where they were before 1961.


That would be like US 75 traffic still having to take Ross and Greenville instead of Central, or US 175 traffic still having to take Commerce and Second Ave. instead of the Hawn Freeway. I can't even imagine the difference.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 04 Sep 2018 11:41
by electricron
itsjrd1964 wrote:
electricron wrote:It wasn’t until 1961 with the opening of Thorton Freeway (I-30) before US-67 and interstate trucking traffic left Gaston.
Can you imagine all those semi trucks using Stemmons to get through Dallas today on Gaston instead? That’s where they were before 1961.


That would be like US 75 traffic still having to take Ross and Greenville instead of Central, or US 175 traffic still having to take Commerce and Second Ave. instead of the Hawn Freeway. I can't even imagine the difference.


I can image it, I am old enough to remember that traffic before most of the freeways and highway bypasses were built.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 04 Sep 2018 14:30
by Tivo_Kenevil
I'd be okay with delays if they expanded the sidewalks ( or created them portions of Gaston don't even have sidewalks!) Or if they added bikelanes. But this isn't advocating anything.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 05 Sep 2018 10:25
by tanzoak
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I'd be okay with delays if they expanded the sidewalks ( or created them portions of Gaston don't even have sidewalks!) Or if they added bikelanes. But this isn't advocating anything.


Yeah, the obvious actual solution to the issue those residents are identifying is a road diet on Gaston, like a standard 4>3 conversion (i.e. change it to one through lane in each direction with a center turn lane and bike lanes on either side). I can't imagine the DOT would be too thrilled about that, though, with the existing volumes, and I don't really have a handle on the politics of those kinds of things in Dallas, regardless.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 05 Sep 2018 10:51
by cowboyeagle05
Plus you have well-healed doctors and business owners along these roadways and they tend to shy away from road diets cause they imagine they won't be able to get home faster. The city tends to allow the White Rock residents of a well-heeled set dictate policy in this part of town. Look at what happened with the Arboretum and the parking garage they wanted to build inside the park. Once the high wealth residents were against it the Arboretum and the city changed face there. I am not saying that garage was a well-planned idea just that the city doesn't like to fight White Rock residents on much of anything cause they use their voice.

Re: Lakewood-White Rock: Garland Rd./Grand/Gaston intersection

Posted: 10 Oct 2018 11:35
by Tnexster
Public Hearing – SH 78 at Gaston Avenue in Dallas County

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get- ... 11318.html