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Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava


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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 23 Nov 2017 23:27

Cool I was trespassing tonight and man there's so much potential for this area.

DPatel304
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby DPatel304 » 24 Nov 2017 11:07

So is the pedestrian portion of the bridge still blocked off? Beautiful pictures!

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 24 Nov 2017 13:29

DPatel304 wrote:So is the pedestrian portion of the bridge still blocked off? Beautiful pictures!

Yep, I don't know what they're working on still. But there is literally no sidewalks that pedestrians can use to even walk up to the bridge. It's rather lame to be honest.

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dallasite1
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby dallasite1 » 26 Nov 2017 00:05

Give it time . I bet they put some in.
Scott Dorn
Preserving D/FW History one photo at a time

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dallasite1
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby dallasite1 » 26 Nov 2017 00:11

Texasstar Great shots as usual!!
Scott Dorn
Preserving D/FW History one photo at a time

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Nov 2017 10:31

The city did approve of plans for the bridge connections to be built out from Beckley and River front side and lord knows the city hasn't released some press release about opening up the pedestrian and biking lanes. Whats going to be real fun is the rule about Bikes have to use one and pedestrians have to use the other. That won't last a day.

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soco
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby soco » 28 Nov 2017 11:52

Unless I've missed something, restricting bikes to one side and pedestrians to another is not accurate. The south arch and approaches are fully built out to accommodate both cyclists and pedestrians. Striping will separate bikes and peds on the ramps, and once on the bridge pedestrians will use the raised sidewalk and bikes will be in the lower two-way bike lane. The north arch is built to full width from levee to levee, but the approaches are not wide to accommodate both uses, like the south arch. Over time the approaches to the north arch can be rebuilt and made wider to accommodate both modes. To my knowledge there will not be anything to restrict use, but cyclists will likely use the south arch since it is designed for them.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Nov 2017 09:49

You missed something. Mostly on the Oak Cliff side in fact. One will have a ramp the other will have stairs. The line down the middle will be a separation between east and west bicycle traffic. The approaches on the Riverfront side will be what appears to be ramps so another confusing Dallas design.
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cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Nov 2017 10:07

"...The bridge was designed to make crossing the bridge feel as low-stress as possible. “We specifically designed the pathways to provide a clear division between the cyclists and pedestrians,” says architect Santiago Calatrava. The bike path is more than 12 feet from the edge of the road, and the pedestrian path 23 feet away, with solid barriers in between. “This gives pedestrians a secure, protected, and comfortable environment in which to cross the river.”..."

https://www.fastcompany.com/3051339/in-car-addicted-dallas-a-new-bridge-is-actually-good-for-bikers

Some more discussion from the designer with language that could be interpreted in many ways.

LongonBigD
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby LongonBigD » 29 Nov 2017 10:51

I can definitely see this being used by bikes, but I'm not convinced pedestrians will use it that much. Where would they be walking to? Large Marge/Continental is a more direct link to West Dallas action. Streetcar/Houston/Jefferson better connected to Bishop Arts and Jefferson St. Maybe a conflict in the future, but for now, this is a bike lane with a couple of walkers/joggers to dodge. And I'm good with that.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Nov 2017 14:37

Really the pedestrian/bike elements were just a tool used to get federal funding for the signature white arches they wanted to span the river. The Feds and the state weren't willing to shell out a bunch of extra money just so Dallas could slap Santiago Calatrava on another signature bridge. The only way the Trinity Trust could get something out of the Feds was to add alternative transportation to the project. Obama had funding initiatives in place to support the growth of biking, transit, and pedestrian transportation projects as part of the economic incentives after the 2008 recession. So they came up with the idea of slapping some fancy pedestrian/bike bridges on the sides to the cheaper and practical highway bridge the state planned to build to appease Federal officials handing out money. I don't think they ever really planned to have pedestrian amenities anywhere near any of these previously visioned bridges. It was an afterthought that we can build on.

As for where is it going well the city came up with a plan to build a Coombs creek trail so the west side would be connected to something besides empty sidewalks along Beckley. On the Riverfront side, the city and the county are building in dedicated bike tracks and wider sidewalks so I see it a logical connection that could go somewhere eventually. West Dallas will get pricer and more development will creep down Beckley near this bridge. Riverfront is also likely to see some interest eventually but I think the Beckley side will flip first for commuters who want a fast route into Downtown and a view of the skyline despite the super wide highway bridge they will stare at.

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soco
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby soco » 29 Nov 2017 16:12

cowboyeagle05 wrote:You missed something. Mostly on the Oak Cliff side in fact. One will have a ramp the other will have stairs. The line down the middle will be a separation between east and west bicycle traffic. The approaches on the Riverfront side will be what appears to be ramps so another confusing Dallas design.
Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 9.46.49 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 9.47.05 AM.png


You are referencing an outdated schematic that does not match what is being built. The south bridge is being striped to accommodate both cyclists and pedestrians. I will concede that the north bridge is being striped pedestrian only, but unless something has changed, there is not a physical barrier preventing cyclists from accessing the bridge. The ramping structure has also changed for both bridges, and is even visible on updated images from Google Earth.

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soco
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby soco » 29 Nov 2017 16:18

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Really the pedestrian/bike elements were just a tool used to get federal funding for the signature white arches they wanted to span the river. The Feds and the state weren't willing to shell out a bunch of extra money just so Dallas could slap Santiago Calatrava on another signature bridge. The only way the Trinity Trust could get something out of the Feds was to add alternative transportation to the project. Obama had funding initiatives in place to support the growth of biking, transit, and pedestrian transportation projects as part of the economic incentives after the 2008 recession. So they came up with the idea of slapping some fancy pedestrian/bike bridges on the sides to the cheaper and practical highway bridge the state planned to build to appease Federal officials handing out money. I don't think they ever really planned to have pedestrian amenities anywhere near any of these previously visioned bridges. It was an afterthought that we can build on.

As for where is it going well the city came up with a plan to build a Coombs creek trail so the west side would be connected to something besides empty sidewalks along Beckley. On the Riverfront side, the city and the county are building in dedicated bike tracks and wider sidewalks so I see it a logical connection that could go somewhere eventually. West Dallas will get pricer and more development will creep down Beckley near this bridge. Riverfront is also likely to see some interest eventually but I think the Beckley side will flip first for commuters who want a fast route into Downtown and a view of the skyline despite the super wide highway bridge they will stare at.


In addition to the Coombs Creek Trail extension, there will also be dedicated bike lanes on Beckley that will connect Kessler Park/N. Oak Cliff to the Margaret McDermott Bridge, planned bike lanes on Commerce (designs complete), and Trinity Groves. All these projects will not be complete at the same time, but there will be dedicated bike lanes along and across the Trinity corridor once they are complete. The Beckley bike lane plans are nearing 100% complete and are awaiting implementation in coordination with the Beckley/Commerce reconstruction project.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 29 Nov 2017 16:21

soco wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:You missed something. Mostly on the Oak Cliff side in fact. One will have a ramp the other will have stairs. The line down the middle will be a separation between east and west bicycle traffic. The approaches on the Riverfront side will be what appears to be ramps so another confusing Dallas design.
Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 9.46.49 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 9.47.05 AM.png


You are referencing an outdated schematic that does not match what is being built. The south bridge is being striped to accommodate both cyclists and pedestrians. I will concede that the north bridge is being striped pedestrian only, but unless something has changed, there is not a physical barrier preventing cyclists from accessing the bridge. The ramping structure has also changed for both bridges, and is even visible on updated images from Google Earth.


Interesting then I may be the one who missed something. I pulled my diagram from the last known update I could find presented to the council. I could not find any from last year for example which is frustrating, to say the least. I can not see updated imagery on my google maps am I missing something?

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soco
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby soco » 30 Nov 2017 09:50

Google Earth Pro has imagery from earlier this year showing the ramps for both bridges under construction. On the north bridge, as the ramp descends to Beckley it wraps around and under the main lanes to reach grade, and connect to the ramp to the south bridge. The ramp to Riverfront is a gradual decline to street level. The ramps for the south bridge wrap under the main lanes on the Beckley side, and spiral down to meet Riverfront on the other side.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 30 Nov 2017 09:58

I will take a look thank you. I'm glad they aren't wasting any more energy on trying to segregate traffic even if it was with good intentions. I almost get run over by bikes walking home in Uptown so I understand the need to provide safe spaces for both kinds of traffic but it's gonna be hard separating the traffic when people can easily walk around barriers and ignore signs.

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PonyUp13
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby PonyUp13 » 03 Dec 2017 13:42

So these don't connect to the Trinity Skyline Trail at all?

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soco
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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Postby soco » 04 Dec 2017 11:37

Connections are planned to the Skyline Trail, but I do not have timelines on when those connections will be put in place.


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