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I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

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joshua.dodd
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby joshua.dodd » 18 Apr 2017 18:52

I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.

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muncien
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby muncien » 19 Apr 2017 09:04

joshua.dodd wrote:I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.


I didn't really get that it would eliminate that section of I45, 175, and I345, but if that's the case, and you could eliminate any possibility of Trinity Tollway, than I could get on board. I'd also say we need to eliminate the possibility of any frontage roads through the green space. Elevated Freeway with minimal impact to nature below. Segments of PGBTP accomplish this quite well, so I know it can be done.

All of that will result in a net reduction of freeway miles. But, if it's simply rerouting I30 and leaving everything else in place... no way.

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tamtagon
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby tamtagon » 19 Apr 2017 09:14

There's no reason these massive highways cannot be constructed for transportation, flood control and to support recreation --- other than the upfront cost of doing it differently. Flanking the wilderness, these structures can also serve as wildlife deterrents, helping to keep dangerous critters out of neighborhoods.

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electricron
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby electricron » 21 Apr 2017 11:01

joshua.dodd wrote:I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.

A drive through "Uptown" Dallas proves your scenario is completely and thoroughly wrong!
Woodall Rogers Freeway did not supress the economic growth of "Uptown" Dallas. It did not make an unconquerable divide between "Uptown" and
"Downtown" Dallas.
There were and are other intangible things causing the lack of economic growth in Cedars and other South and East Dallas neighborhoods.

Here's an idea, have someone study the reasons why Uptown is growing while Cedars isn't. I have a feeling that having a freeway in the neighborhood isn't going to be amongst the major reasons why. ;)

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electricron
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby electricron » 21 Apr 2017 11:03

electricron wrote:
joshua.dodd wrote:I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.

A drive through "Uptown" Dallas proves your scenario is completely and thoroughly wrong!
Woodall Rogers Freeway did not supress the economic growth of "Uptown" Dallas. It did not make an unconquerable divide between "Uptown" and "Downtown" Dallas.
There were and are other intangible things causing the lack of economic growth in Cedars and other South and East Dallas neighborhoods.

Here's an idea, have someone study the reasons why Uptown is growing while Cedars isn't. I have a feeling that having a freeway in the neighborhood isn't going to be amongst the major reasons why because all these neighborhoods have them. ;)

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 21 Apr 2017 11:39

electricron wrote:
joshua.dodd wrote:I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.

A drive through "Uptown" Dallas proves your scenario is completely and thoroughly wrong!
Woodall Rogers Freeway did not supress the economic growth of "Uptown" Dallas. It did not make an unconquerable divide between "Uptown" and
"Downtown" Dallas.
There were and are other intangible things causing the lack of economic growth in Cedars and other South and East Dallas neighborhoods.

Here's an idea, have someone study the reasons why Uptown is growing while Cedars isn't. I have a feeling that having a freeway in the neighborhood isn't going to be amongst the major reasons why. ;)



Huh? I think you completely missed the point of his statement.

Never did he say there was some sort of economic oppression caused by this highway that exist TODAY.... He said the highway cut off the neighborhood and that the neighborhoods were decimated by their construction..PAST TENSE. Which they were. This is not even debateable. The cedars, Freedman's Town (Uptown),Little Mexico (VP) all were established neighborhoods before the highways. Once Construction began, Private homes were taken away from people who once lived in these areas. After which, people fled these parts of town and thereafter these areas were neglected by the city..For years.

Here's a 1997 KERA documentary that shows what happened to Little Mexico when Highway construction started.

https://youtu.be/DFXH9q_av4s

Watch from minute 23.

And Here's another fantastic documentary of Dallas, it shows what happened to freed man's town when 75 was built.

https://youtu.be/p-n5-8giHfo

Watch from minute 34.


Now, regarding his point of spurring development by connecting these areas..Its a very vaild point and shouldn't be dismissed.. look at KWP..This little connection has spurred tremendous development. There's a desperate need for South Dallas to get some development even more so than the CBD.

A project of this nature may just very well be the best way to do it.
Last edited by Tivo_Kenevil on 21 Apr 2017 12:02, edited 3 times in total.

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tamtagon
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby tamtagon » 21 Apr 2017 11:43

I still do not like building another highway, but I do still have that 'hum-just-maybe' feeling about a thru-traffic I-30.... like, the reroute of I-30 through East Dallas/Fair Park/South Dallas certainly would welcome to the Texas the opportunity for a hybrid highway-boulevard, combining the benefits of keeping some limited access recessed BRT/HOV/personal vehicle lanes reaching the Convnetion Center while the I-30 access roads are transformed into an actual boulevard for neighborhoods and rail services; cross-town and thru traffic swings around South Dallas and up to the mixmaster. Cargo vehicles would certainly use the whoop-around, maybe require it, but it sure could work.

A growing city will always find a way around a highway, absorb it. I like the barrier I-345 creates between East Dallas/Deep Ellum and downtown: a firm line setting two distinct neighborhood identities. The same neighborhood enhancing barrier is achieved with much greater success with a park, but if that highway is eliminated who is going to really push for a park? Maybe maybe not....

but either way, eliminating Julius Schepps & SW Wright highway from South Dallas and replacing I-345 with a park would be the absolute best thing for Dallas.

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joshua.dodd
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby joshua.dodd » 21 Apr 2017 12:07

electricron wrote:
joshua.dodd wrote:I am personally in favor of the 30 reroute. Not only would it help to reconnect the CBD with the Cedars, Fair Park and Deep Ellum, vice versa, it would also help development in the area by creating a more natural flowing cohesion. This plan includes rerouting 45 and 175 as well. Many of these neighborhoods were decimated as a result of these freeways cutting off their natural flowing street grid.

A drive through "Uptown" Dallas proves your scenario is completely and thoroughly wrong!
Woodall Rogers Freeway did not supress the economic growth of "Uptown" Dallas. It did not make an unconquerable divide between "Uptown" and
"Downtown" Dallas.
There were and are other intangible things causing the lack of economic growth in Cedars and other South and East Dallas neighborhoods.

Here's an idea, have someone study the reasons why Uptown is growing while Cedars isn't. I have a feeling that having a freeway in the neighborhood isn't going to be amongst the major reasons why. ;)


Uptown's growth is due, primarily and largely, to the fact that Klyde Warren Park, built over Woodall Rogers, has increased land value while reconnecting the surrounding area from what was a freeway divide wasteland. You can find plenty of studies about this. Fact.

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tamtagon
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby tamtagon » 21 Apr 2017 12:44

I'd have to say Katy Trail or MATA has had more influence on Uptown than KWPark. The Park is a strong incentive to fill in many of the adjacent parcels, but Uptown had been reaching toward adolescence before that park.... Uptown started 25 years ago....

Location and a nice TIF jumpstart, and really, KWPark might not have been possible if Uptown hadn't already proved itself....

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tamtagon
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby tamtagon » 21 Apr 2017 12:48

^replacing Schepps and Wright with a boulevard and streetcar will lead the gentrification of South Dallas, situated between an actual big forest and downtown, South Dallas would become the among the most desirable residential locations in the South Central US.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 21 Apr 2017 13:43

tamtagon wrote:I still do not like building another highway, but I do still have that 'hum-just-maybe' feeling about a thru-traffic I-30.... like, the reroute of I-30 through East Dallas/Fair Park/South Dallas certainly would welcome to the Texas the opportunity for a hybrid highway-boulevard [...]


Something like that could work. Paris has six lane boulevard that run through the city. They're off set with wide tree lined side walks..No reason i30 couldn't be redone like that...Then just put mixed use buildings on both sides.. and you could have a nice boulevard and some promenades that shoot off into the neighborhoods for pedestrians.

IMO that Would be really cool. I can't think of any major city in Texas with something like that now that I think of it.

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electricron
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby electricron » 22 Apr 2017 02:09

Tivo_Kenevil wrote: I can't think of any major city in Texas with something like that now that I think of it.

Dallas, does several times. Loop 12 in both north and south Dallas transfers between freeway and boulevard status. Dallas North Tollway does the same in uptown. Makes Harry Times very unfriendly for pedestrians.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 22 Apr 2017 12:22

tamtagon wrote:^replacing Schepps and Wright with a boulevard and streetcar will lead the gentrification of South Dallas, situated between an actual big forest and downtown, South Dallas would become the among the most desirable residential locations in the South Central US.


Tam, are you off your meds again? :)


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