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DART: Expansion

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muncien
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby muncien » 14 Mar 2018 09:56

^^^
Thx for the info! That's a bit further out than I expected. But, I'm glad to see actual dates instead of just 'talk'.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

lakewoodhobo
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby lakewoodhobo » 30 Nov 2018 15:55

This isn't about line expansions, but the platform extensions on the Red and Blue line are now fully funded.

Feds plug final $2M into DART's plan to extend Red and Blue line platforms as way to ease rush hour crush
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transpo ... hour-crush

The previous $58.8 million federal contribution to DART's platform extensions was also a capital improvements grant. An additional $60 million is coming from mobility funds administered through the Texas Department of Transportation. Local DART funds make up the balance.

"The next step is to get a full funding grant agreement," from the FTA, Thomas said. "Once that happens, we can award the contracts and begin this work."

DART expects the full funding agreement within the next couple of months. It plans to extend platforms in five phases, keeping trains running throughout. Completion date is 2021-22.

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itsjrd1964
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby itsjrd1964 » 30 Nov 2018 18:20

**Hopefully**, there will be additional benches and related infrastructure coming when these platforms are extended/improved. Several of the stations need better availability of waiting/seating areas. Most of them have a divergent approach to what is available at ground level vs. what's at the platform level. In busy times, you can forget about sitting while you wait, much less having anything covered.

DART really needs dedicated funding/allocations toward escalator and elevator maintenance. That is likely not part of any expansion, but with Mockingbird and Cityplace not at ground level and D2 stations being underground in the future, any amount of out-of-order conditions like the ones experienced now and in recent months will be quite the issue and will negatively affect commuting.

dfwcre8tive
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby dfwcre8tive » 30 Nov 2018 21:41

itsjrd1964 wrote:**Hopefully**, there will be additional benches and related infrastructure coming when these platforms are extended/improved. Several of the stations need better availability of waiting/seating areas. Most of them have a divergent approach to what is available at ground level vs. what's at the platform level. In busy times, you can forget about sitting while you wait, much less having anything covered.

DART really needs dedicated funding/allocations toward escalator and elevator maintenance. That is likely not part of any expansion, but with Mockingbird and Cityplace not at ground level and D2 stations being underground in the future, any amount of out-of-order conditions like the ones experienced now and in recent months will be quite the issue and will negatively affect commuting.


This is how Seattle is dealing with escalator maintenance issues... stairs.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... reakdowns/

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TNWE
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby TNWE » 03 Dec 2018 14:53

itsjrd1964 wrote:**Hopefully**, there will be additional benches and related infrastructure coming when these platforms are extended/improved. Several of the stations need better availability of waiting/seating areas. Most of them have a divergent approach to what is available at ground level vs. what's at the platform level. In busy times, you can forget about sitting while you wait, much less having anything covered.

DART really needs dedicated funding/allocations toward escalator and elevator maintenance. That is likely not part of any expansion, but with Mockingbird and Cityplace not at ground level and D2 stations being underground in the future, any amount of out-of-order conditions like the ones experienced now and in recent months will be quite the issue and will negatively affect commuting.


I'm curious to see if any of the extensions will bridge streets (the way Walnut Hill currently does). Extending platforms south over Park Lane and adding access on that side of the street would do wonders for usability and connecting the station to all the development to the south, I just don't know if that would require an elevator on the south side? I'd rather they didn't add new elevators, but I fear it's an ADA requirement.

Does anyone know *why* DART's elevators/escalators are so prone to breakdown? Are they not turned off outside of operating hours to limit wear and tear?

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northsouth
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby northsouth » 03 Dec 2018 19:40

The 4 elevated stations on the Red Line were all built to full length to begin with, since extending them after the fact would be much more difficult.

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TNWE
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby TNWE » 03 Dec 2018 23:28

northsouth wrote:The 4 elevated stations on the Red Line were all built to full length to begin with, since extending them after the fact would be much more difficult.


I saw all the elevated stations included in the project scope, so I assumed they needed structural changes to extend, but lo and behold, the elevated stations are actually longer (at 405 ft) than many Orange/Green line platforms.

So my next question is - if there's no aerial construction, and they preserved land for the at-grade extensions, why the heck does this cost $5 million/station? Even with Cityplace and Mockingbird being somewhat more challenging from a construction ingress perspective, those were built even longer so there's no major construction/digging required there. How much can 200 sq ft of additional station pavement or modifications for level boarding cost?

Also I'm pretty sure the Blue line stations were only included to bump up the theoretical capacity increase for FTA scoring purposes, because I've never seen Blue line trains crowded the way Red/Orange/Green are during rush hour.

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northsouth
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby northsouth » 04 Dec 2018 06:29

TNWE wrote:So my next question is - if there's no aerial construction, and they preserved land for the at-grade extensions, why the heck does this cost $5 million/station? Even with Cityplace and Mockingbird being somewhat more challenging from a construction ingress perspective, those were built even longer so there's no major construction/digging required there. How much can 200 sq ft of additional station pavement or modifications for level boarding cost?


If they're going to be doing what they did at Ledbetter to all of the stations, then they will be adding new canopies on the extended ends and raising the entirety of the platforms instead of just adding a third hump. $5 million per station does seem a bit high, but I don't know much about construction costs.

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TNWE
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby TNWE » 04 Dec 2018 11:14

northsouth wrote:
TNWE wrote:So my next question is - if there's no aerial construction, and they preserved land for the at-grade extensions, why the heck does this cost $5 million/station? Even with Cityplace and Mockingbird being somewhat more challenging from a construction ingress perspective, those were built even longer so there's no major construction/digging required there. How much can 200 sq ft of additional station pavement or modifications for level boarding cost?


If they're going to be doing what they did at Ledbetter to all of the stations, then they will be adding new canopies on the extended ends and raising the entirety of the platforms instead of just adding a third hump. $5 million per station does seem a bit high, but I don't know much about construction costs.


So basically typical DART spending bloat. I don't see DART changing their rail operations procedures to allow for shorter trains to stop anywhere on the platform, so why spend so much extra raising the whole platform and having to move all of the fixtures when they just need a third set of level boarding humps? Someone needs to train DART on value engineering.

Still glad to see that it's happening, just wish they'd actually focus on solving the problem, not spending as much federal, state, and local money as possible. It's not like there's an excess of construction workers that need employment...

lakewoodhobo
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Re: DART: Expansion

Postby lakewoodhobo » 05 Dec 2018 09:00

itsjrd1964 wrote:**Hopefully**, there will be additional benches and related infrastructure coming when these platforms are extended/improved. Several of the stations need better availability of waiting/seating areas. Most of them have a divergent approach to what is available at ground level vs. what's at the platform level. In busy times, you can forget about sitting while you wait, much less having anything covered.


I still haven't seen a standalone DART station more useful in terms of amenities than Hampton Station. How they managed to build and maintain two climate-controlled waiting areas with restrooms and not let it burn to the ground within 5 years is commendable.

They need some serious cosmetic work now, maybe some charging stations where the payphones used to be, but at least the vending machines accept Apple Pay.


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