Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

User avatar
Hannibal Lecter
Posts: 590
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 19:57

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 26 Feb 2020 15:59

Cbdallas wrote:Southwest and American AA sent out memos to all employees to go online and vote against.


I very much doubt this. Both airlines' current public position is that it they have no position. Quite frankly, Dallas-Houston is a small market for Southwest these days. The vast majority of AA's passengers between the two cities is connecting traffic, which wouldn't be affected by a train.

Why would either airline risk the bad publicity if such a memo got out -- which it would -- over a completely meaningless "survey" about something that would have little effect on them?

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 478
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 26 Feb 2020 16:32

I was being facetious. I was puzzled why a survey in a very pro business site would skew against this project.

User avatar
tamtagon
Site Admin
Posts: 1849
Joined: 16 Oct 2016 12:04

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 26 Feb 2020 16:33

I voted in that unscientific poll five time, from five different computers.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 2452
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 Feb 2020 10:11

I tried but every time I tried to vote the page would just reload without counting my vote. Obviously a poll we should rely on for scientific data gathering.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 782
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 27 Feb 2020 11:10

Back in the early 90s when there was an earlier push to get high-speed rail in the Texas triangle, Southwest Airlines (and only Southwest, not Continental or American, fought it VERY hard. Short-haul, intra-Texas service was still Southwest's bread and butter at the time; now, not so much. My understanding is that none of them care very much one way or the other about the HSR project now.

User avatar
Alex Rodriguez
Posts: 107
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 14:31

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Alex Rodriguez » 27 Feb 2020 14:36

Tucy wrote:Back in the early 90s when there was an earlier push to get high-speed rail in the Texas triangle, Southwest Airlines (and only Southwest, not Continental or American, fought it VERY hard. Short-haul, intra-Texas service was still Southwest's bread and butter at the time; now, not so much. My understanding is that none of them care very much one way or the other about the HSR project now.


That is 100% correct.

Tnexster
Posts: 2664
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 28 Feb 2020 13:22

I can't imagine they would, and it's not like the HSR operation is going to significantly impact air service between Dallas and Houston. Traffic between the two metros will continue to grow between now and the day it opens and will still continue to grow after it opens. This is just one more option for people to take advantage of.

User avatar
tamtagon
Site Admin
Posts: 1849
Joined: 16 Oct 2016 12:04

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 28 Feb 2020 15:54

By the time it's open, the two population centers will have grown by a combined one million residents. by the time the train is up and running, it will be time to double the service. Is there any hope the I-35 redo through Austin will give some room for HSR?

User avatar
electricron
Posts: 294
Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 29 Feb 2020 01:31

tamtagon wrote:By the time it's open, the two population centers will have grown by a combined one million residents. by the time the train is up and running, it will be time to double the service. Is there any hope the I-35 redo through Austin will give some room for HSR?

There is not room for express-managed-hov lanes without tunneling them under the regular lanes which are under the service roads in Austin - where do you think they can place double track HSR line?
If they were capable of building a HSR line within the I-35 corridor, where would you place the HSR train station? The HSR train will be placing its Houston train station at Loop 610 and US290, five miles or more away from downtown Houston. Is there anywhere closer in Austin for a HSR train station?
I do not think so..... :(

User avatar
mhainli
Posts: 35
Joined: 02 Mar 2017 17:56

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby mhainli » 29 Feb 2020 10:25

The devil is in the details on getting a HSR type corridor through Austin for a HSR station downtown. Until it’s studied in detail (Environmental Impact Statement) with cost and many other factors considered it would be hard to say now. IH-35 might indeed be very difficult but perhaps another corridor is doable.

User avatar
Redblock
Posts: 176
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 11:15

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Redblock » 08 May 2020 16:51

Court says Texas Central is a railroad.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/t ... o-16918221

User avatar
Redblock
Posts: 176
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 11:15

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Redblock » 08 May 2020 16:52

Court says Texas Central is a railroad.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/t ... o-16918221

Tnexster
Posts: 2664
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 10 Jun 2020 22:16

Well, they laid off the overwhelming majority of their staff in early March so have been operating with a skeleton crew since then. Not sure what that means going forward.

Tnexster
Posts: 2664
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 13 Jun 2020 11:22

Texas Central's high-speed rail project 'could require some stimulus money,' CEO says

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... money.html

The company, which is developing a multibillion-dollar high-speed rail line that could connect Dallas and Houston via a 90-minute train ride, laid off 28 employees in March and watched as the pandemic roiled global financial markets it hoped to tap for financing.

Texas Central is evaluating other means of financing besides private equity, according to an April 8 letter sent from Drayton McLane, Jr. — Texas Central chairman and an investor in the project — to Texas State Sen. Robert Nichols. The Dallas Business Journal obtained a copy of the letter, which can be seen here.

McLane gave an update on the project to Nichols, saying it's "turned into a $30B project and we have certainly hit a snag with all the difficulties of the Corona Virus."

"We feel that between Japanese government funding and the monies we hope to receive from President Trump's infrastructure stimulus through the Department of Transportation, along with private equity that the project still has a great opportunity, is viable and can be construction ready this year," McLane added.

User avatar
exelone31
Posts: 621
Joined: 31 Oct 2016 11:35

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby exelone31 » 15 Jun 2020 09:08

Which one gets built first (or ever): This rail line, or some semblance of a Trinity River Park?

User avatar
homeworld1031tx
Posts: 154
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 12:23
Location: The Village, Dallas

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby homeworld1031tx » 15 Jun 2020 11:25

This thing is such a joke. Spend a billion dollars on creating a 'shuttle' like aircraft service between Love and Hobby (hell, spend an extra billion to build a special terminal at each airport to handle the unique traffic and low security needs) and then spend the left over $28 billion on solar panels and wind turbines. Boom, you've just offset the co2 emissions from those flights by probably 1000x.

User avatar
eddieg1
Posts: 10
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 07:12

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby eddieg1 » 19 Jul 2020 16:11

Dallas-to-Houston high-speed rail project just got easier to build, but hurdles still remain

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/dalla ... 1c9ba3e57b

A new decision doesn't clear the way entirely for Texas Central to make its high-speed rail line a reality, but represents a major hurdle the company has overcome.
Texas Central won a key ruling Thursday that will make it easier to build the proposed high-speed rail line between Dallas and Houston, but hurdles remain before construction can begin.
The Surface Transportation Board, which oversees regulation of various modes of transportation, primarily freight rail, in addition to some passenger rail, reversed a prior decision, and will now take jurisdiction over the project.

User avatar
Cbdallas
Posts: 478
Joined: 29 Nov 2016 16:42

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 20 Jul 2020 12:05

So does Houston have a plan to provide a connection the their light rail system or will you just come out of the station and have to take uber or a car to get into the urban core of the city?

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 782
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 20 Jul 2020 14:05

Cbdallas wrote:So does Houston have a plan to provide a connection the their light rail system or will you just come out of the station and have to take uber or a car to get into the urban core of the city?


I believe Houston passed a new transit plan that is slated to provide BRT service from the HSR station to both Downtown and Uptown/Galleria areas.

User avatar
ajderry2017
Posts: 5
Joined: 02 Jul 2020 11:33

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby ajderry2017 » 21 Sep 2020 10:37

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/t ... 582761.php

All that's left is the court ruling on eminent domain correct?

User avatar
MC_ScattCat
Posts: 69
Joined: 26 Jun 2019 16:12

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby MC_ScattCat » 21 Sep 2020 15:35

Some good news finally! Looking more and more like this will be a reality.

User avatar
tamtagon
Site Admin
Posts: 1849
Joined: 16 Oct 2016 12:04

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 21 Sep 2020 15:46

Good timing! So it'll be five years (?) before it's all up and running?

That means some Cedars construction starts next year with massive redevelopment beginning in 2022.

DPatel304
Posts: 1847
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 21 Sep 2020 18:40

Great news!! I'm really looking forward to the potential ancillary development that could occur in the immediate area.

User avatar
electricron
Posts: 294
Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 04 Oct 2020 09:37

How close the train stations are to public transit is not as important as many suggest. This train will ultimately sink or swim financially depending upon its ability to attract business travelers who will ride the train twice a week - if not more often. Sure, attracting vacationers visiting families once a year and students traveling between homes and schools once a month will be nice bonus. But the bread and butter, as it is with all intercity travel around the world, will be those traveling on business. Business travels will more likely take a privately ran taxi, uber, or limo as they would take publicly subsidized transit to get to the train stations.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 782
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 04 Oct 2020 10:04

Cbdallas wrote:So does Houston have a plan to provide a connection the their light rail system or will you just come out of the station and have to take uber or a car to get into the urban core of the city?


On that note, do we have a plan here in Dallas to provide a connection to DART?

User avatar
THRILLHO
Posts: 93
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:20

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 04 Oct 2020 14:17

Tucy wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:So does Houston have a plan to provide a connection the their light rail system or will you just come out of the station and have to take uber or a car to get into the urban core of the city?


On that note, do we have a plan here in Dallas to provide a connection to DART?


The old conceptual renderings for the station included a skybridge connection to the Dallas Convention Center DART station. The newer renderings don't show off a view of such a connection but I imagine it would still be the plans.
Moving walkways like in airports would make this a very short hop and a skip.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
electricron
Posts: 294
Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 05 Oct 2020 01:32

THRILLHO wrote:The old conceptual renderings for the station included a skybridge connection to the Dallas Convention Center DART station. The newer renderings don't show off a view of such a connection but I imagine it would still be the plans.
Moving walkways like in airports would make this a very short hop and a skip.


The Texas Central trains will have 8 cars, each car around 85 feet in length, for a total around 700 feet in length. A normal city block (short side of the rectangle) is 300 feet, so the train length will be over two blocks.

Using Google Earth tool function, from the intersection of Cadiz and Hotel which will be located on the north side of Texas Central's station, DART's convention center station is approximately 2200 feet away and Cedars station is 3200 feet away. Since the train will park south of the designated intersection, you might have to add the full length of the 700 feet train to reach the Convention Center station, likewise you might be able to shorten 700 feet to reach the Cedars station. So DART stations would be either 2200-2700 feet or 2500-3200 feet away. I would state depending upon which end of the train was riding on, that would determine which train station you would walk or ride to. So, it's either 7 to 8 blocks away with the train potentially being one of those blocks. Is asking potential riders to walk a half mile too far?

Will there be battery powered scooters or bikes sharing stations nearby? Will there be free or pay shuttle buses? Somehow, I believe the demand and supply and user costs will determine what will be available.

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 782
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2020 11:47

electricron wrote:
THRILLHO wrote:The old conceptual renderings for the station included a skybridge connection to the Dallas Convention Center DART station. The newer renderings don't show off a view of such a connection but I imagine it would still be the plans.
Moving walkways like in airports would make this a very short hop and a skip.


The Texas Central trains will have 8 cars, each car around 85 feet in length, for a total around 700 feet in length. A normal city block (short side of the rectangle) is 300 feet, so the train length will be over two blocks.

Using Google Earth tool function, from the intersection of Cadiz and Hotel which will be located on the north side of Texas Central's station, DART's convention center station is approximately 2200 feet away and Cedars station is 3200 feet away. Since the train will park south of the designated intersection, you might have to add the full length of the 700 feet train to reach the Convention Center station, likewise you might be able to shorten 700 feet to reach the Cedars station. So DART stations would be either 2200-2700 feet or 2500-3200 feet away. I would state depending upon which end of the train was riding on, that would determine which train station you would walk or ride to. So, it's either 7 to 8 blocks away with the train potentially being one of those blocks. Is asking potential riders to walk a half mile too far?

Will there be battery powered scooters or bikes sharing stations nearby? Will there be free or pay shuttle buses? Somehow, I believe the demand and supply and user costs will determine what will be available.


Good analysis. But I think it understates the average walk. The skywalks connect to the station 1 level below the tracks. So, it would appear from the renderings we've seen, that no matter which end of the train you are riding on, you'll have to go to roughly the center of the station to take the escalators down one level, and the skywalks appear to connect at roughly the center of the station. (So if you happen to be in the front car, you'll have to back-track to get down and into the skywalk, before proceeding to the DART convention center station.)

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 782
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 05 Oct 2020 11:48

THRILLHO wrote:
Tucy wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:So does Houston have a plan to provide a connection the their light rail system or will you just come out of the station and have to take uber or a car to get into the urban core of the city?


On that note, do we have a plan here in Dallas to provide a connection to DART?


The old conceptual renderings for the station included a skybridge connection to the Dallas Convention Center DART station. The newer renderings don't show off a view of such a connection but I imagine it would still be the plans.
Moving walkways like in airports would make this a very short hop and a skip.


Cool. But to be clear, the skywalk does not quite take you to the DART Convention Center station. Closer, but still about another 1,000 foot walk.

User avatar
THRILLHO
Posts: 93
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:20

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 05 Oct 2020 12:22

The exit of the skybridge to the convention center station would be the same walking distance as from the exit of the north end of DFW's Terminal A to the airport DART station.
It's not ideal of course, but I think because most people will view this thing as an airport of sorts, the psychological hurdle of the distance won't be too big of a deal. That will be particularly true if the skybridge is air-conditioned, feels of-a-piece with the HSR station itself, and has moving walkways that eliminate the need to walk any of it. The nice view of downtown from it probably won't hurt either.

My hope is that the walk from the presumed skybridge exit to the dart station gets improved significantly...

User avatar
TNWE
Posts: 290
Joined: 03 May 2017 09:42

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby TNWE » 05 Oct 2020 18:17

THRILLHO wrote:The exit of the skybridge to the convention center station would be the same walking distance as from the exit of the north end of DFW's Terminal A to the airport DART station.
It's not ideal of course, but I think because most people will view this thing as an airport of sorts, the psychological hurdle of the distance won't be too big of a deal. That will be particularly true if the skybridge is air-conditioned, feels of-a-piece with the HSR station itself, and has moving walkways that eliminate the need to walk any of it. The nice view of downtown from it probably won't hurt either.

My hope is that the walk from the presumed skybridge exit to the dart station gets improved significantly...


The main train stations in Tokyo are absolutely massive - you can easily walk a half-mile from the train platform to the subway platform, entirely indoors/underground. The generally mild weather, abundance of shops, and general pace of people around you make that distance feel like nothing. Some stations (like Shinjuku) are almost maze-like in their layout so you don't see the distance you have to walk, which helps with the psychology of it to a point - there's no demoralizing long hallway. TCR needs to find some way for that walk to not *feel* like a long walk, and being Texas, at the absolute minimum that means making it climate controlled for all but maybe the last 250 feet to the DART platform.

Honestly the best thing would be for the skybridge to connect directly to the convention center at the ballroom level and have enclosed stairs down to street level, the only problem is that there's no pre-function space on that side - it's all loading docks.

User avatar
tamtagon
Site Admin
Posts: 1849
Joined: 16 Oct 2016 12:04

Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 05 Oct 2020 18:53

I would imagine that side of the convention center will get redone.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron

Login